Photo by Echo Charles

“You might have to make some tactical retreats in order to win the long war, but never quit on your strategic vision. Never quit on getting to the ultimate place where you want to go.” — Jocko Willink

Jocko Willink (@jockowillink) takes over the show for a special episode. Jocko is one of the scariest human beings imaginable. He is a lean 230 pounds and a Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt who used to tap out 20 Navy SEALs per workout. He is a legend in the special operations world, and his viral podcast interview with me was the first public interview he ever did. Jocko spent 20 years in the U.S. Navy and commanded SEAL Team Three’s Task Unit Bruiser, the most highly decorated special operations unit from the Iraq War. Upon returning to the United States, Jocko served as the officer-in-charge of training for all West Coast SEAL Teams, designing and implementing some of the most challenging and realistic combat training in the world.

After retiring from the Navy, he co-founded Echelon Front, a leadership and management consulting company, and co-authored the #1 New York Times bestseller Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win. He is also the author of The Dichotomy of Leadership, Way of the Warrior Kid, and Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual. His new book, Leadership Strategy and Tactics: Field Manual, is coming out in January.

Jocko also discusses human nature through the lens of war, leadership, and business on the top-rated Jocko Podcast.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.

This episode is brought to you by LegalZoom. I’ve used this service for many of my businesses, as have quite a few of the icons on this podcast, such as Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg of WordPress fame.

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Want to hear the last time Jocko was on this show? — Listen to this episode about the success mindset, how to stop laziness and procrastination, behaviors that lead to failure, exact workouts, training while traveling, and much more. (Stream below or right-click here to download.):

QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Jocko Willink:

Echelon Front | Jocko Podcast | Warrior Kid Podcast | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

• Leadership Strategy and Tactics: Field Manual by Jocko Willink
• Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin
• Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual by Jocko Willink
• The Dichotomy of Leadership: Balancing the Challenges of Extreme Ownership to Lead and Win by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin
• Way of the Warrior Kid: From Wimpy to Warrior the Navy SEAL Way: A Novel by Jocko Willink and Jon Bozak
• Marc’s Mission: Way of the Warrior Kid (A Novel) by Jocko Willink and Jon Bozak
• Way of the Warrior Kid 3: Where there’s a Will… (A Novel) by Jocko Willink and Jon Bozak
• Mikey and the Dragons by Jocko Willink and Jon Bozak
• Discipline Equals Freedom — Jocko Willink, The Tim Ferriss Show #275
• Jocko Willink on Discipline, Leadership, and Overcoming Doubt, The Tim Ferriss Show #187
• The Scariest Navy SEAL Imaginable…And What He Taught Me, The Tim Ferriss Show #107
• Jocko Willink, The Joe Rogan Experience #729
• The Second Battle of Ramadi, Wikipedia
• Navy SEAL Careers, US Navy
• Top 10 Things to Know Before BUD/S, Military.com
• The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: When to Quit — Lessons from World-Class Entrepreneurs, Investors, Authors, and More, The Tim Ferriss Show #254
• Escape from New York, HistoryNet
• Anzac Cove and Gallipoli Then and Now, The Guardian
• The Evacuation of Dunkirk, Historic UK
• 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan Specs, Price, MPG & Reviews, Cars.com
• If You Don’t Like To Fight, This is Why You Should Do Jiu Jitsu, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles, Jocko Podcast
• Keep The White Belt Attitude, Gracie Barra
• What is Frog Hill in BUD/S? SEAL Grinder PT
• Kalsu WOD: One of the Hardest CrossFit Workouts, Athletic Muscle
• How Contrast Bath Therapy Works, Verywell Health
• Home Instructions for Contrast Bath, Cincinnati Children’s
• What Is Exposure Therapy? APA
• With Tim Ferriss — Darkness & How to Stay on the Path, Last Days of Life & What to Do, Back-up Plans, Misconceptions, Jocko Podcast #50
• Some Practical Thoughts on Suicide by Tim Ferriss, tim.blog
• The Path to Pearl Harbor, The National WWII Museum
• Korean War, a ‘Forgotten’ Conflict That Shaped the Modern World, The New York Times
• Why the United States Went to War in Vietnam, Foreign Policy Research Institute
• Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers by Timothy Ferriss
• Victory MMA, San Diego
• Jocko White Tea
• Origin Maine
• Jockostore.com

SHOW NOTES

• In his own words, who is Jocko Willink? [03:01]
• How did Jocko meet his wife, what tips does he have for building and maintaining a family, and how does a mindset of extreme ownership ensure everything runs as smoothly as possible — whether at home, in the office, or while leading a platoon? [04:53]
• Tactical and strategic perspectives: knowing when to quit and when to persevere when there are opportunity costs to consider. [11:24]
• How does discipline play a role in macro and micro financial decisions like daily and monthly budgets? Has this changed for Jocko over time? [20:17]
• How does Jocko balance his time as a father with businesses, a podcast, and working out? What values does he hope to pass on to his children? [23:37]
• What are Jake’s thoughts on toxic masculinity? How should someone raise their son to understand concepts like harassment and consent, and to be assertive and ambitious in life without going too far (or not far enough)? [31:45]
• What are Jocko’s experiences with cold or heat therapy like cold showers, ice baths, saunas, et cetera? [38:22]
• What is one piece of advice Jocko would give someone who’s on the brink of finishing it all tonight — especially someone who might be skeptical of psychologists? [44:23]
• What’s Jocko’s step-by-step guide to building discipline for someone who has little to none of it? [49:33]
• How does someone build mental toughness and resilience? [51:26]
• If Jocko hadn’t been in the military, what would he have done instead? [52:48]
• Your five-year-old has been taking jiu-jitsu for two weeks, but he’s not very aggressive. How do you teach someone to turn on aggression? [54:06]
• Jocko has started multiple, successful businesses since his first appearance on this podcast a few years back. How has he managed to do this? [58:12]
• What does Jocko consider to be his biggest failure? [1:06:57]

PEOPLE MENTIONED

Posted on: November 14, 2019.

Please check out Tribe of Mentors, my newest book, which shares short, tactical life advice from 100+ world-class performers. Many of the world's most famous entrepreneurs, athletes, investors, poker players, and artists are part of the book. The tips and strategies in Tribe of Mentors have already changed my life, and I hope the same for you. Click here for a sample chapter and full details. Roughly 90% of the guests have never appeared on my podcast.

Who was interviewed? Here's a very partial list: tech icons (founders of Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Craigslist, Pinterest, Spotify, Salesforce, Dropbox, and more), Jimmy Fallon, Arianna Huffington, Brandon Stanton (Humans of New York), Lord Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ben Stiller, Maurice Ashley (first African-American Grandmaster of chess), Brené Brown (researcher and bestselling author), Rick Rubin (legendary music producer), Temple Grandin (animal behavior expert and autism activist), Franklin Leonard (The Black List), Dara Torres (12-time Olympic medalist in swimming), David Lynch (director), Kelly Slater (surfing legend), Bozoma Saint John (Beats/Apple/Uber), Lewis Cantley (famed cancer researcher), Maria Sharapova, Chris Anderson (curator of TED), Terry Crews, Greg Norman (golf icon), Vitalik Buterin (creator of Ethereum), and nearly 100 more. Check it all out by clicking here.