Bookpleasures.comis delighted to welcome philosopher-turned-novelist CarolynKorsmeyer.

Formost of her career, Carolyn worked as a professor of philosophy,publishing five academic books before channeling her insights intofiction.

Whilean academic treatise and a captivating story may seem miles apart,Carolyn’s work beautifully shows how deep, complex ideas can bepowerfully expressed through narrative.

Herprevious novels include Charlotte’s Story, whichre-imagines a beloved Pride and Prejudice character,and the Krakow-based thriller Little Follies.

Today,we are sitting down with Carolyn to discuss her fascinatingnovel, Riddle of Spirit and Bone.

Thisdual-timeline story, inspired by a real-world neighborhoodexcavation, plunges readers into the 19th-century spiritualistmovement.

Itmasterfully plays with the boundaries of illusion, delusion,certainty, and doubt—exploring what we choose to believe, what wefail to notice, and what happens when the past literally resurfacesbeneath our feet.

Norm:Carolyn, thank you for joining us today to discuss Riddle ofSpirit and Bone and for sharing the story behind it.

Carolyn:My pleasure! Thanks for having me.

Norm:To start, how did you balance the pacing between the 2015 and 1851timelines, and did one timeline dominate early drafts before youadded cliffhangers?

Carolyn:From the start, I intended to have the historical timeline longerthan the contemporary one. This is partly for narrative continuity,as I didn’t want the settings to move back-and-forth at frequentintervals, and having the 1851 plot more continuous made for asmoother story. 

But there is also a strategic reason: Sometimes Iwanted the reader to know what was going on in 1851 before theinvestigators in 2015 found out that part of the story. 

Theplot presents two mysteries to pursue. First and most obviously: theidentity and cause of death of the person whose skeleton isdiscovered in 2015 during excavations for gas line replacement. Andsecond, whether the spiritualist leader guiding the 1851 journey istrustworthy or not. 

The solutions to the two mysteries proceed atdifferent paces. Although the contemporary investigators eventuallysolve their own mystery, they don’t learn as much as the readerdoes about what happens to the characters in the earlier timeline. 

This mirrors the practical limits of investigation into events of thepast, I think. No matter how scrupulous the research, there arealways aspects of history that we fail to discover. 

Norm:In what ways did Jane and Lydia represent two different responses tothe 19th century spiritualist movement, and how did you write Jane’sstruggle between wanting to share Lydia’s spiritual gift andstaying rational?

Carolyn:First let me say something about the spiritualist movement, which wasfar more than occult table-tapping. Spiritualism was one of several“radical” movements that sprung up in western New York in the19th century. 

Because it began as a domestic pursuit, it involved alot of women, and within the community, a medium was accorded acertain authority that belied customary gender roles. 

Thusspiritualism fostered attitudes that rejected traditional authority,and as such it was allied with the women’s rights movement. 

Manyspiritualists also supported anti-slavery activities. So although tomany of us today the whole enterprise seems “irrational,” it wasalso socially progressive.

Therewas always—both then and now—a good deal of skepticism about theidea that one can communicate with spirits of the dead. It was surelycomforting to the bereaved to receive a message that their loved oneswere at peace, but at the same time, séances invited frauds. 

Some ofthose frauds were revealed in their own times, although therevelations did not always discourage believers. 

After all, to anaudience open to the idea of the afterlife and the continuation ofspiritual existence after death, it would be quite possible toacknowledge that one medium is a fraud but another might have agenuine gift. 

Inmy novel, one character, a young woman named Lydia, discovers herselfto be a natural medium, as she feels spirits approach even during herfirst séance. She is enthusiastic and entirely sincere. 

Her cousin,Jane, does not share this gift, although she tries hard and enviesLydia her abilities. Eventually, Jane’s skepticism becomes toostrong, and she distances herself from Lydia’s convictions.

However,I didn’t want to present their contrasting beliefs to beincontrovertibly true or false. I have always been curious aboutgrounds for belief, about what kinds of evidence convince one personto believe and another to be skeptical. 

Religion, scientificspeculation, a spiritual world—all represent terrain where oneperson might harbor doubts, one might believe, one might be agnostic.So I tried to retain just a bit of mystery in the plot. 

Norm:When creating Alexander Dodge Lewis, did you use real historicalspiritualists as models?

Carolyn:I did begin with a particular person in mind, a man named AndrewJackson Davis, who was influential in the spiritualist movement, andin early drafts the name I gave that character suggested the realperson. 

I should be clear, though, that Davis was not a fraud; he didnot set out to deceive anyone but was entirely sincere in hisbeliefs. 

He applied the (then popular) ideas of Swedenborg tospiritualism, seeking to supply some theoretical ground to convinceothers of the possibility of communication with the afterlife. 

However, as this character developed in the story, he departed quitea lot from that real historical personage. As a consequence, Ichanged his name, because I didn’t want readers to assume referenceto an actual person. 

Ioften don’t know how a character is going to develop fully untilthe words are on the page. That isn’t meant to sound mysterious.Rather, for me writing is a means to amplify thoughts; it isn’tjust a tool for writing them down. 

It’sinteresting to note how many authors report that their own charactersrun away from them and seem to talk back, resisting what the authorintended them to say and do. 

To choose just two quite differentexamples, both William Faulkner and Stephen King have written abouthow characters take on a life of their own, and the author has towait and see what they’re going to do. 

Norm:For Lydia’s trance states, what research guided your physicaldescriptions, and do you think they were self-induced, hysterical, orcaused by Lewis’s teas?

Carolyn:Lydia is entirely convinced of her ability to communicate with thedead. Her attitude is excited and enthusiastic but far fromhysterical. I didn’t want the reader to jump to a diagnosis withthis particular character. Is she really communicating with the dead? 

Would a positive answer have to signal irrationality? I kept thatquestion open.

Mydescriptions of Lydia’s trances are mostly products of imagination.Entering that kind of state is quite foreign to me. But I’mintrigued that others are able to do things both physically andmentally that I personally cannot. 

So IF I were to enter a trance andhave a vision of another world, THEN I think the experience would bequite a lot like Lydia’s. But notice that surmise is hypothetical! 

Norm:With the camera obscura in mind, why did you choose it as a metaphorfor Jane and Jed’s art, and how did building your own cameraobscura help you describe Jane’s first look inside it?

Carolyn:Some years ago I got interested in the devices that visual artistshave developed to aid in their representation of the world. Thecamera obscura is an apparatus that helps to render proportion andperspective when drawing, and in that respect, it is an aid toactually seeing. 

The act of seeing might seem to be natural—justopen your eyes. But perception is very complex and can be influencedby all manner of things. 

Furthermore,as anyone knows who has even tried to draw, the gap between seeingwhat is in front of you and drawing it accurately is enormous.

 In19th century America, there were many people who wanted to learn todraw and paint, and lots of them wanted to emulate the masterpiecesof European art. 

To bridge the gap between seeing and drawing, manyinstruction manuals were published for amateur or untrained artists.And of course, drawing manuals are still available both in print andon websites.) 

The camera obscura that I built myself was a verysimple one. I followed the instructions from the manual of afascinating artist and scientist, Rufus Porter—the one historicalfigure in the novel, to whom I gave a (fictional) nephew named JedPorter. 

Thesame design is used by the character Dan when he builds a cameraobscura for display in his mother’s museum. In that respect, thedevice unites the two timelines. 

But more importantly, in thehistorical time frame, the camera obscura not only assists Jane andJed to execute their drawings, but also it foregrounds the questionof the accuracy of perception. 

The camera obscura makes one reflecton the nature of perception, its accuracy, and the fact that it canproduce illusions. The familiar adage states that seeing isbelieving. But is it?

Janeis bothered by the fact that others claim to see things that shecannot—specifically, the presence of spirits at the séances sheattends. Because she tends to cede to the authority of others, andbecause she loves her cousin, she does not trust her own responses. 

When she draws and paints, she studies her subjects very carefully,and when she meets Jed and discovers his camera obscura, herattention to what is really before her sharpens. Implicitly, shegains confidence in her own judgment. 

Inthe course of these events, she also embraces her independence andfollows her own choices. (And incidentally, one scene where thisindependence arises is set in Seneca Falls, New York, site of thefirst women’s rights convention.)

Norm:Regarding Uncle George’s death mask, why did you include it, andwhy did you include the detail of his moustache hairs in theplaster? 

Carolyn:The death mask was introduced at the beginning just after UncleGeorge’s funeral as a way to represent the rather desperate griefof his wife Madeleine, who obsessively keeps images of him—lots ofdrawings as well as the death mask. 

But it is also intended as acomic note, as her attempt to preserve his appearance was not quitewhat she intended. Later in the story, the presence of the spiky bitsof plaster moustache feed Jane’s suspicions about the possible useof the mask in a séance. 

Norm:On the research side, how did you research forensic archaeologydetails like bone analysis and isotope testing to keep them accurate,and how did you balance clinical lab reports with Dan and Karen’semotional connection to the bones?

Carolyn:I found quite a lot of information from web searches for theseanalytical details, and I ran the story by a scientist just to besure that I didn’t make any obvious errors. I also consulted aphysician about aspects of skeletons that might remain aftercenturies in the earth. 

Frankly, I kept such details to a minimum forfear of blundering into error.

Whatinterests me especially is the emotional connection you mention. Thefact that our bones last so much longer than we do ourselves is achilling fact, recognition of which takes many forms. 

Is a personidentical with his or her body? Probably not, and certainly not withhis or her skeleton! And yet we treat remnants of bodies withreverence, whether with burial practices or mementoes such as locksof hair.

Thecontemporary character, Dan, discovers the skeleton quite by accidentand is shocked to find the remains of a person lying at his feet. 

Hefeels such sympathy with whoever lay in an unknown grave for over acentury, that he can’t help but feel that he must find out herfate. His sentiment is shared by the others—the studentarchaeologists—who join him in searching for answers about how andwhy she died. 

All that remains of her are bones, and yet they senseher as a person who deserved—and still deserves—respect andjustice, even after so many years.

Norm:In making the tree roots around the skeleton symbolize both a tomband protection, how did you do it, and how does knowing the tree wasplanted in 1851 deepen the story?

Carolyn:This aspect of the plot draws some details from the history ofBuffalo, which is the setting for both the contemporary timeline andthe concluding elements of the historical story. 

As you mentioned inyour introduction, the opening scene of the novel was inspired by thereplacement of the gas mains in my neighborhood, which created anawful mess but was also very intriguing. What might one find in thosedeep channels? 

I peered in from time to time to see what might lie inthe depths under my sidewalk, but the answer in reality was prettyundramatic—--just a lot of bedrock and tree roots. Fortunately, thenovelist has the license to supply a skeleton.

Buffaloused to be a splendid city.  Its pattern of streets and parkswas laid out by the great landscape designer, Frederick Law Olmstead. 

The museum in the novel is fictional, but it is modeled on an oldmansion that used to stand on one of the long, grand avenues, whichoriginally had a double line of elm trees on either side. From adistance, one can still see the outlines of the original citydesign. 

Theold pattern of tree planting is evident to the character Dan when hestands at a window on the top floor of the museum and looks down thestreet. He discovers that he can see just where the skeleton wasburied and its relationship to what used to be a line of trees. 

Thusthe missing tree whose roots snared the skeleton is a clue as toexactly when the body was buried—at the very time when the treeswere planted in 1851 in the newly developing neighborhood.

Ilike your observation that the tree became both a tomb and aprotector! I didn’t envision it quite that way as I was writing,but it fits beautifully with the sentiments of the story as itdevelops. In a sense, the remaining roots of the long-dead treesurvive, just as do the bones they harbor.

Norm:To create tense “daytime gothic” moments in broad daylight, howdid you contrast them with dark séances, and does daylight help Janesee through Lewis’s illusions?

Carolyn:Jane is the character whose emotions swing most dramatically fromdark to light, from fear to calm. She experiences dread that a spiritapproaches during a dimly sit séance, but those fears abate themorning after when daylight disperses the shadows.  

Thingsthat are mysterious and scary in the dark often lose those aspectsafter the sun rises. When one is afraid, things appear larger andmore awful than when one is not caught in the grip of fear. 

Ofcourse, one can also suffer panic in broad daylight, but the contrastbetween night and day in the novel I think is a fairly commonexperience.

Norm:Regarding James Deetz’s book In Small Things Forgotten, how did itshape your mystery? What small object was hardest to write, and whichwas most satisfying to connect Jane and Karen across 164 years?

Carolyn:Deetz’s book is a fascinating study of the importance of small,quotidian objects to illuminate our understanding of the past. Butmainly, I love the poetry of the title: “in small things forgotten”which is actually a quote from a historical document). 

I wanted touse the phrase, and I also wanted to credit him, and so Karenmentions his book in the story.

Personalitems that survive the centuries can put us almost literally in touchwith those who owned them long ago, supplying a link between theliving and the long dead. Jewelry frequently plays this role:necklaces or watch fobs or cuff links passed down over generations. 

Sometimes they are valuable, but mainly, they have sentimental value.This is often misleadingly termed “merely” sentimental value, butI don’t think that merely is apt for the recognition of connectionbetween the present wearer of an object and those who wore it in thepast. 

Continuing to use such things keeps alive one’s attachment tomeaningful events and people of the past. 

Inthis story, we know of the lockets that the cousins Jane and Lydiawear, and when the skeleton is discovered, one of those lockets,heavily damaged, is lying beside it. Karen is an archaeologist who isespecially intrigued with small, domestic items that carry past livesinto the present, and she expresses this belief with her desire towear the locket herself. 

Ofcourse, we also have the mysterious button that was found with theskeleton, but I won’t go into that because it would be too much ofa spoiler!

Perhapsthe largest historical remnant that unites the worlds of the twotimelines concerns the museum—converted from an old mansion. Therewe find beneath wallpaper some of the paintings that Jane and Jedproduced to decorate the house when it was new. 

The reader alreadyknows how they were painted using the instructions from RufusPorter’s manual. The contemporary characters discover them in theirworn state and must hazard a guess as to who painted them.

Norm:As we end our interview, in what way did your background inphilosophy shape your writing about the “aura” of real historicalobjects, and how does the burial and gravestone at the end balanceclinical preservation with spiritual closure?

Carolyn:I wouldn’t set out to write a novel just to make a philosophicalpoint. However, if you spend a lot of time thinking about certainissues in the classroom, they inevitably invade your imagination whenwriting fiction too.

Thelast philosophy book I wrote is titled Things: In Touch with thePast. It is an analysis of encounters with objects from the past thathave special affective power, which I speculate is based upon animplicit experience of touch that imparts a sense of presence whenone is near old things. 

Thisidea is at work when Dan and Karen ruminate on the difference betweenthe original, authentic paintings on the walls of the museum, and thefurniture that merely looks old, but is really reproduction. 

Karenspeaks in my voice here, because I hold that the experience ofgenuine old things is quite different from the experience of even themost accurate reproductions—even if one can’t tell them apart bymerely looking. 

And in these cases, clearly one can’t trust visionalone, because a good reproduction can be indiscernible from the oldreal thing. 

Perceptionis back in the sights here. What you know and understand and believeaffects both how you perceive things and the value you ascribe tothem. 

This is a tricky claim, because it is important to shiftbeliefs that are not well founded. But the difference between theexperience of a genuine artifact from the past and a reproductionisn’t just imaginative projection. It is confirmation of howperception and understanding function together.

Muchof what we have been considering concerns continuity between the pastand the present. At the end of the novel, the skeleton has beenidentified and her fate at least partially understood. (And again,the reader understands more than the contemporary characters.) 

Thegraveside scene reminds us that bones are not just disposableleftovers of human bodies but still represent what once was a livingperson. The ritual of burial acknowledges that, and the final sceneof the story brings the two timelines together.

Follow Here To Read Norm's Review of Riddle ofSpirit and Bone