Bookpleasures.com is excited to be joined today by Dr. Lisa S. Gardiner, a science writer, educator, scientist, and speaker who helps curious readers understand our planet's workings and the impacts of our actions on climate, oceans, and ecosystems.

With a PhD in geoscience (focused on paleoecology) from the University of Georgia, an MFA in nonfiction writing from Goucher College, and a BA in geology and marine science from Smith College, Lisa blends scientific expertise with creative storytelling.

She's the author of the award-winning Tales from an Uncertain World: What Other Assorted Disasters Can Teach Us About Climate Change, and her new book, Reefs of Time: What Fossils Reveal about Coral Survival, is now available.

She also teaches workshops, develops educational tools like curricula and museum exhibits, and has created science comics and illustrations. Previously, she led projects at the UCAR Center for Science Education, funded by NSF, NOAA, and NASA.

Norm: Lisa, thank you for joining us. Let's dive in with our first question… What initially inspired you to write Reefs of Time, and how did your background as a geoscientist influence your decision to explore the fossilized past of coral reefs?

 If your inspiration came from a specific event or discovery, could you describe that moment and how it shifted your perspective on coral reefs? 

How has your geoscience training helped you bridge the gap between ancient fossils and modern conservation efforts?

Lisa: Thank you for the invitation to share a bit about Reefs of Time! The inspiration for the book first came from a particular place: a fossil reef along a rocky coast on the Bahamian island of San Salvador where I did doctoral research many years ago. 

The fossil reef is on land now because it formed when sea level was a bit higher (about 125,000 years ago) so it's possible to stand on fossil corals on the coast and see living corals offshore. 

Living corals are struggling today, but the fossil corals lived before Anthropocene problems like pollution, overfishing, and human-caused climate change. 

The situation for coral reefs today is dire. This is a catastrophe, and it can be hard to have perspective in the middle of a catastrophe. What we know about the history and prehistory of reefs can help us understand the resilience of this ecosystem, when and where reefs have thrived or floundered and what they need to survive long term. Looking at evidence from the past to inform conservation is becoming more common in science, so this gap between fossils, history, and modern conservation is now being bridged and the findings are fascinating. 

Norm: You describe the book as venturing into the 'shallow end of deep time.' Can you explain what this phrase means to you and how it shaped your approach to storytelling? 

How did this concept help you make complex geological timelines more relatable for non-expert readers? 

Were there any challenges in translating 'deep time' into a narrative that feels immediate and urgent for today's climate issues?

Lisa: Reefs of Time looks at coral reefs from the past few hundred thousand years, which is a very small fraction of deep time (also known as geologic time) — the nearly 4.6-billion-year history of our planet. That's why I refer to the timeframe as the shallow end of deep time. These young fossil reefs are a lot like modern reefs (except for the lack of Anthropocene stresses). I wanted to connect the paleontology with the present day because understanding past coral reefs can let us envision how we can help reefs survive into the future. 

Norm: The book weaves together cutting-edge research and personal fieldwork. Could you share a memorable experience from one of your expeditions to tropical locales, and how it informed your understanding of ancient reefs? 

What unexpected challenges did you encounter during that expedition, and how did they influence the book's themes of resilience? 

How did collaborating with local researchers or communities in those locales add depth to your storytelling?

Lisa: A coral reef off the coast of Belize had a deep influence on the book's ideas about reef resilience. Full of thriving staghorn coral, a species that died in huge numbers across the Caribbean in the 20th century, this reef was anomalously healthy when I visited it in late 2022 with the team of geologists who study it. They researched the history of coral growth below the living reef and found that the staghorn coral grew more or less continuously for at least a century. This means that the staghorn coral in this reef persisted while the coral was dying en masse throughout the region.

Because the coral had shown resilience, a local project started growing it to help restore other reefs. But unfortunately, an unprecedented marine heatwave began months after my visit and all the staghorn coral in this reef died. It was terribly sad, and emphasized that resilience has limits. This coral had a history of resilience but was not equipped to survive the climate crisis. 

Norm: What surprised you the most about the fossil records of coral reefs—perhaps a specific discovery or 'cryptic signature' in the coral limestone that revealed something unexpected about their endurance? 

How did that surprise change your preconceived notions about coral adaptability, and has it influenced any ongoing research? Can you explain how that discovery might translate into practical strategies for protecting modern reefs?

There are differences between these prehistoric reef interruptions and what is happening now. 

The environment is changing at a faster rate today. It is possible that there will be too few safe spots left in the ocean as climate warms, that species will go extinct, and reefs will not be able to return. 

But it's also possible that corals will eventually start to grow on the remains of their dead ancestors, especially if we limit the amount of warming and help species avoid extinction.

Norm: You emphasize stories of resilience and transformation from ancient reefs that survived dramatic environmental upheavals. 

What key lessons from these epochs do you think are most applicable to today's coral ecosystems facing climate change?

 How do these historical examples of resilience give you hope amid the current predictions of reef decline?

Lisa: Nothing is quite like the mess that climate change is causing in coral reefs today, but there have also been times in the past when the ocean was less hospitable to corals. 

For example, about 20,000 years ago, most tropical oceans had about 90 percent less area where reefs could form (because of the shape of the seafloor, there was less shallow water for reefs when sea level was low). 

Despite much less habitat, all but two coral species appear to have made it through that time. Theoretically, species survived in pockets of the ocean where they could still find livable conditions — places called refugia. 

Thousands of years later, once there were more shallow areas in tropical oceans, reefs proliferated. 

If we can protect enough pockets of the ocean now, reefs could recover eventually as they did in the past. The question is whether there will be enough refugia with livable conditions this century as climate warms. 

We don't know if there will be enough refugia. But if we help at least some reefs survive this century, we will improve the odds that reefs worldwide can recover eventually. 

Norm: How did you decide which specific locations and time periods to focus on, and what challenges did you face in accessing or interpreting these sites? 

Was there a particular site that didn't make it into the book, and why did you choose to exclude it? 

There are far more coral reefs in the world, living and fossilized, than would fit into this book. But some stories wound up being a bit tangential to the main ideas, even if they were fascinating. I'm turning some of the extra stories into articles and perhaps parts of a future book. 

Norm: Your writing style is described as both scientific and lyrical. How did you balance rigorous geoscience with poetic observation to make the book accessible and moving for a wide audience? 

Lisa: I have an appreciation for stories that weave the lyrical and scientific together, particularly when these stories help people learn about nature. 

That's what I aimed to do in Reefs of Time. I wanted the book to be accessible whether or not a reader had ever visited a coral reef. 

Through stories of expeditions to living and fossilized reefs — which are the more lyrical parts of the book — I hope readers can envision what reefs are like and why they are worth saving while also learning about the science of this ecosystem. 

Norm; You reframe the story of coral reefs as one of possibility rather than inevitable loss. Based on your research, what concrete actions do you believe scientists, policymakers, and everyday readers can take to support reef survival? 

If you had to prioritize one lesson for policymakers, what would it be, and why? If you could design a simple policy change based on your findings, what would it look like? 

How can individual readers incorporate these actions into their daily lives, beyond just awareness?

Lisa: For at least some reefs to survive this century, we need to limit the amount of climate change. If we can keep the amount of warming this century to 1.5C, about a third of the world's coral reefs will survive according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. 

There are other threats to reef health, but climate is the most dire and a problem that we can all help solve, even if we live nowhere near a coral reef.

Every fraction of a degree that our climate warms will make a huge difference for coral reefs. We all can tackle this problem and there has been meaningful action so far, but it is not happening fast enough and, sadly, there are still a few leaders (particularly the current US president) who do not acknowledge the gravity of the situation or that we can fix it. 

Of course, the health of coral reefs is just one of many, many reasons to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and slow climate change. 

Another essential thing we can do is to not give up hope. We are going to see more headlines about extreme heat killing corals over the next few decades, and we will need to keep saving what we can. The steps we take now will make it easier for reefs to return eventually, even if that is well beyond our lifespans. 

Norm: The book highlights how ancient reefs adapted to shifting seas and temperatures. In what ways do you see parallels—or differences—between those past adaptations and the unprecedented human-driven changes reefs face in the Anthropocene?

What makes human-induced changes uniquely challenging compared to natural upheavals in the fossil record? 

Are there any modern coral species that seem to echo the adaptive traits of their ancient counterparts?

Lisa: Anthropocene threats to coral reefs — including (but not limited to) rapid warming and nutrient-laden runoff from agriculture and cities— are unlike past, natural changes because of their vast scales and rapid rates of change. 

The good news is that corals do appear to be able to adapt and acclimate to at least some amount of warming. The question is whether they will have enough time to do so given how rapidly the ocean is warming. 

In the past, corals have adapted over hundreds to thousands of years. They don't have that much time now, so some scientists are finding ways to help speed up the process, such as through assisted evolution. 

Norm; With the book's release coinciding with ongoing global discussions on climate crisis and mass extinction, how do you hope Reefs of Time will influence educators, policymakers, and the general public in their approach to environmental challenges? 

What specific feedback from early readers has already shown this influence in action? 

If the book sparks a broader conversation, what key question do you hope it raises in policy circles?

Lisa: Since the book came out in the US, I have been hearing from people who are working to help coral reefs — like university students studying the ocean, people working for environmental NGOs, and divers volunteering with citizen science projects.

 I also hear from people who are thinking about how we as societies and nations can help. It is heartening to know there are so many people who care about coral reefs and are motivated to solve problems. I'd like to see more of this, a groundswell of action. The reefs need everyone's help. 

Norm: Where can our readers find out more about you and Reefs of Time: What Fossils Reveal about Coral Survival?

Lisa: To learn more about me and my work, readers can visit my website.

For more information about the book, visit the Princeton University Press website.

In Nautilus Magazine, I share more about the book in What Deep Time Can Tell Us About Coral Reefs.

Norm: As we wind up our interview, looking ahead, what do you envision for the future of coral reefs based on your research? 

How optimistic are you about reefs surviving the next century, and what factors could tip the scales? 

Lisa:Coral reefs are facing slim odds of making it through this century. We are going to watch lots of corals die in the next few decades. Some scientists say this could be the first ecosystem to become extinct. But reefs are not destined to fail completely, and I am more optimistic about reefs over longer timescales. 

If we do get climate under control and help coral species avoid extinction and tolerate heat, reefs can return. 

I'm optimistic that this will happen eventually, but these future reefs may have fewer species as some go extinct and it may take a long time for the ecosystem to be stable again. 

I'm certain that coral reefs will have a better chance of bouncing back if they have our help.  

Norm: Thanks once again and good luck with all of your endeavors