For Immediate Release:
Dateline: San Francisco,
CA
Tuesday, November 20, 2018
Stan Grof (right) with the legendary Albert Hofmann (left), the first person to synthesize LSD. “I realized people were not having LSD experiences; they were having experiences of themselves. But they were coming from depths that psychoanalysis didn’t know anything about.” — Stanislav Grof Stanislav Grof, M.D., (stanislavgrof.com) is a psychiatrist with more than 60 years of experience in research of “holotropic” states of consciousness, a large and important subgroup of non-ordinary states that have healing, transformative, and evolutionary potential. Previously, he was Principal Investigator in a psychedelic research program at the Psychiatric Research Institute in Prague, Czechoslovakia, Chief of Psychiatric Research at the Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD, and Scholar-in-Residence at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, CA. Currently, Stan is Professor of Psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco, CA, and conducts professional training programs in holotropic breathwork and transpersonal psychology, and gives lectures and seminars worldwide. He is one of the founders and chief theoreticians of transpersonal psychology and the founding president of the International Transpersonal Association (ITA). His publications include more than 150 articles in professional journals and books like Psychology of the Future, The Cosmic Game, and Holotropic Breathwork, among many others. In this wide-ranging interview, we cover many topics, including: - Some of his main takeaways after supervising or guiding ~4,500 LSD sessions
- The place and role of “wounded healers”
- Limitations and uses of traditional psychoanalysis and talk therapy
- Holotropic breathwork and some similarities to MDMA
- Stories of odd synchronicities and the seemingly impossible
- Stan’s strangest personal experiences on psychedelics
- What Stan believes humanity most needs to overcome: division and destruction
I hope you’ll enjoy this in-depth conversation with Stan Grof!
Want to hear another episode that explores science and psychedelics? — Listen to my conversation with Paul Stamets, an intellectual and industry leader in the habitat, medicinal use, and production of fungi. Stream below or right-click here to download.
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QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments. Scroll below for links and show notes…
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE- Connect with Stanislav Grof:
Website | Grof Transpersonal Training | California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) | International Transpersonal Association (ITA) - Psychology of the Future: Lessons from Modern Consciousness Research by Stanislav Grof
- The Cosmic Game: Explorations of the Frontiers of Human Consciousness by Stanislav Grof
- Holotropic Breathwork: A New Approach to Self-Exploration and Therapy by Stanislav Grof
- Other books by Stanislav Grof
- California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)
- International Transpersonal Association (ITA)
- What is LSD? by L. Anderson, PharmD, Drugs.com
- ‘Apparently Useless’: The Accidental Discovery of LSD by Tom Shroder, The Atlantic
- Dimethyltryptamine Experiments with Psychotics by Zoltan Boszormenyi and Stephen Szara, Journal of Mental Science
- DMT Research from 1956 to the Edge of Time by Andrew R. Gallimore and David P. Luke, Reality Sandwich
- 5-MeO-DMT: What You Need to Know by Seth Fitzgerald, The Drug Classroom
- Psychotomimetic Effects of PCP, LSD, and Ecstasy: Pharmacological Models of Schizophrenia? by Vibeke Sorensen Catts and Stanley V. Catts
- The Consciousness Research of Stanislav Grof: A Cosmic Portal Beyond Individuality by Donna A. Dryer and
Richard Yensen, Textbook of Transpersonal Psychiatry and Psychology - Serotonin: Functions, Side Effects, and More by Annamarya Scaccia, Healthline
- Electroencephalogram (EEG), Johns Hopkins Medicine
- Hiroshima Atomic Bomb (1945): A Day That Shook the World, British Pathe
- What Does Dharmakaya Mean? by Barbara O’Brien, ThoughtCo.
- The Tibetan Book of the Dead (Bardo Thodol) by Padmasambhava
- Savikalpa, Nirvikalpa, and Sahaja Samadhi by Sri Chinmoy, Earth-Bound Journey and Heaven-Bound Journey
- Kensho, Wikipedia
- Satori, Wikipedia
- Maya, Wikipedia
- What is Reality?: The New Map of Cosmos, Consciousness, and Existence by Ervin Laszlo
- Holotropic States by Alex Paterson, Esolibris
- They Saw Earth From Space. Here’s How It Changed Them. by Nadia Drake, National Geographic
- The Rites of Passage by Arnold van Gennep
- The Eleusinian Mysteries: The Rites of Demeter by Joshua J. Mark, Ancient History Encyclopedia
- What Are the Differences Between the Teachings of Zen and Theravada Buddhism?, Quora
- Chinese Esoteric Buddhism, Wikipedia
- Hesychasm by Kevin Knight, New Advent
- Saying the Jesus Prayer by Dr. Albert S. Rossi, St. Vladimir’s Seminary
- What Are the Spiritual Exercises?, Ignatian Spirituality
- A Collection of Esoteric and Cabalistic Exercises for Self Protection by Marcia L. Pickands, The Psychic Self-Defence Personal Training Manual
- Psychoactive Plants Lecture Notes, Department of Plant Biology, University of Maryland
- Ibogaine and Iboga by Seth Fitzgerald, The Drug Classroom
- Psilocin and Psilocybin by Seth Fitzgerald, The Drug Classroom
- The Ayahuasca Boom in the U.S. by Ariel Levy, The New Yorker
- The Hazy History of Bufo Toad Venom Smoking, Tryptamine Palace
- The Toad and the Jaguar: A Field Report of Underground Research on a Visionary Medicine: Bufo Alvarius and 5-Methoxy-Dimethyltryptamine by Ralph Metzner
- When the Impossible Happens by Stanislav Grof
- Church of the Toad of Light on Facebook
- Esalen
- International Transpersonal Conference
- Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research by Stanislav Grof
- Michael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics, The Tim Ferris Show Episode 313
- Psycholytic and Psychedelic Therapy Research 1931-1995: A Complete International Bibliography compiled by Torsten Passie
- This Is My Attempt at Explaining Grof’s COEX Systems Theory, Presented in LSD: Doorway to the Numinous by JwJesso, Reddit
- LSD: Doorway to the Numinous: The Groundbreaking Psychedelic Research into Realms of the Human Unconscious by Stanislav Grof
- What is the Collective Unconscious? by Daryl Sharp, Jung Lexicon, via Frith Luton
- Spring Grove Experiment, Wikipedia
- Suicide Survivors: A Follow-up Study of Persons Who Survived Jumping from the Golden Gate and San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridges by David H. Rosen, MD, Western Journal of Medicine
- Where Are They Now?: The Fate of Suicide Attempt Survivors by Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW, Speaking of Suicide
- Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition: DSM-5
- Dementia Praecox and Paraphrenia by Emil Kraepelin
- Neo-Kraepelinian Divergences from Kraepelin: What Are They and Why They Matter by Lindsay Hoeschen, Portland State University
- The Psychoanalytic Theory of Neurosis by Otto Fenichel, M.D.
- Oedipus Complex: One of Freud’s Most Controversial Ideas by Kendra Cherry, Verywell Mind
- Personal Unconscious, Wikipedia
- Lessons Learned from Huston Smith’s Exploration of Religious Experience by Don Lattin, Religion News Service
- God in a Pill? Meher Baba on L.S.D. and The High Roads via Wikipedia
- Mysticism Sacred and Profane by Robert Charles Zaehner
- Makyo, Wikipedia
- 1962 Good Friday Experiment, MAPS
- Siddha Yoga
- Shaivite Hinduism, Patheos
- From Ganja to God by Geetanjali Joshi Mishra, Beatdom
- What Is Bhang and How Is It Made?, RQS
- Hashish vs. Marijuana, Sunrise House
- The Essential Guide to Datura, The Third Wave
- The Secret of the Soma Plant, American Institute of Vedic Studies
- The Rig Veda
- The Texts of Kashmir Shaivism, The Siddha Yoga Teachings
- Shiva Sutras of Vasugupta, Wikipedia
- The Dance of Synchronicity and Unexpected Meaning by Cynthia Cavalli, PhD, Fielding Graduate University
- The Way of the Animal Powers (The Historical Atlas of World Mythology, Vol. 1) by Joseph Campbell
- The Mantis and the San by Chrigi in Africa, Ranger of the San Clan
- The Lost World of the Kalahari by Laurens van der Post
- Ammonite from Mt. Everest Base Camp, The Fossil Forum
- 4 Bizarre Out-Of-Body Experiences That Turned Into Case Studies by Laura Martisiute, ATI
- 9 Things to Know About Ladino by Sarah Aroeste, My Jewish Learning
- Spiritual Emergence Network (SEN)
- On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres by Nicolaus Copernicus
- Paradisia and Dominatia: Science and the Developing World by Michael J. Moravcsik and John M. Ziman, Foreign Affairs
- Atman and Brahman by Beverlee Jill Carroll, World Religions
- Zhangzi’s (Chuang-Tzu’s) Butterfly Dream Parable by Elizabeth Reninger, ThoughtCo.
- The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. Kuhn
- The Chemical Revolution of Antoine-Laurent Lavoisier, National Historic Chemical Landmarks
- Seeking the Magic Mushroom by R. Gordon Wasson, LIFE Magazine
- The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries by R. Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann
- Kykeon by Joshua J. Mark, Ancient History Encyclopedia
- Peyote and the Native American Church by Catherine Beyer, ThoughtCo.
SHOW NOTES- How did Stan first become interested in psychedelics, and what application was he hoping it could serve? [8:32]
- In how many LSD sessions does Stan estimate he’s been involved, and what accounts for his initial conclusion that it would change psychiatry and psychology? [13:18]
- When did Stan have his first personal experience with LSD, what were the conditions like, and how did it change his career path from that point forward? [18:45]
- Why we don’t always have the right words on hand to describe psychedelic experiences. [21:40]
- After more than six decades studying non-ordinary states of consciousness, how does Stan view consciousness today (in comparison to some other equally controversial views)? [25:22]
- Why does Stan prefer the term non-ordinary states of consciousness to altered states, what are holotropic states of consciousness, and how have human beings operated in these states over the course of history? [28:26]
- Stan’s thoughts on 5-MeO-DMT (methoxy DMT) and the psychedelic venom of the Bufo alvarius toad — which gave him “by far, the most powerful psychedelic experience” he’s ever had. [37:43]
- Stan elaborates on his famous statement that “Psychedelics, used responsibly and with proper caution, would be for psychiatry what the microscope is for biology and medicine or the telescope is for astronomy,” and how he feels about the relevance of traditional psychoanalysis or psychotherapy in combination with some of these psychedelic compounds. [44:42]
- What would Stan’s ideal experiential, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy look like? [56:10]
- Stan points out that there are non-pharmacological ways to achieve holotropic states — such as holotropic breathing, which I can confirm actually works. [56:57]
- What substances, dosages, and frequency would psychedelic assistance take under Stan’s guidance? [58:52]
- Exploring the neglect of etiology in modern psychology and how Stan would correct this problem. [1:03:30]
- What makes the difference between someone emerging from a psychedelic state profoundly transformed or just experiencing it as a casual tourist with no persistent change of perspective? [1:08:47]
- Stan talks about his experiences with Siddha Yoga founder Swami Muktananda. [1:18:07]
- The reasons Stan wrote When the Impossible Happens, the stories surrounding this time in his life, and an explanation of synchronocity. [1:25:17]
- On out of body experiences and a moving example of how unorthodox psychiatry helped someone overcome depression in a surprising way. [1:36:32]
- What psychedelic at what dose is most similar to the effects or the experience of holotropic breathwork? [1:44:34]
- Does the common psychedelic phenomenon of encountering entities seemingly separate from the person in such a state carry over to breathwork? Has Stan encountered these entities during his own experiences? [1:45:49]
- What are Stan’s thoughts on microdosing, and what has he experienced at the tail end of high-dosage sessions? [1:51:18]
- What constitutes a “spiritual emergency,” and are there any differences between a naturally occuring spiritual emergency like schizophrenia or one precipitated by psychedelics? Can any good come from a bad trip? [1:55:15]
- What might treatment for someone experiencing a psychotic break look like in a hypothetical alternate world where the collective unconscious is recognized by psychologists and psychiatrists? [1:59:25]
- From his first psychedelic experience to now, how has Stan’s concept of the inner world changed over the past 60 years? [2:04:36]
- Is there any particular synchronicity or experience in any of the holotropic states that Stan has experienced that he finds the hardest to explain or the most unusual/remarkable? [2:08:42]
- If Stan were a young scientist starting out today and all compounds could be legally studied, what would his focus be? [2:16:33]
- At age 87, how does Stan stay sharper and more energetic than a lot of people in their 20s? [2:23:34]
- What does Stan think humanity needs most of all right now? [2:27:46]
- One final story: a lesson in forgiveness. [2:31:16]
- Parting thoughts. [2:40:59]
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