“Anger is often what pain looks like when it shows itself in public.”

— Krista Tippett

Ryan Holiday (@RyanHoliday) is one of the world’s foremost thinkers and writers on ancient philosophy and its place in modern life. He is a sought-after speaker and strategist and the author of many bestselling books, including The Obstacle Is the Way, Ego Is the Enemy, and The Daily Stoic. His books have been translated into more than 30 languages and have sold more than two million copies worldwide. He lives with his family outside of Austin, Texas. You can subscribe to receive his writing at RyanHoliday.net and DailyStoic.com. Ryan was also the fourth-ever guest on the podcast in the very beginning, and he has written multiple popular guest posts for my blog, which you can find at tim.blog.

His latest book is Stillness Is the Key, which was an instant #1 New York Times bestseller and Wall Street Journal bestseller.

This episode focuses on Stoic philosophy and how to apply it in our current uncertain times.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.

This podcast is brought to you by LegalZoom and Trello. More on both below. 

This episode is brought to you by LegalZoom. I’ve used this service for many of my businesses, as have quite a few of the icons on this podcast, including Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg of WordPress fame.

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear another episode with Ryan Holiday? — In this conversation, we discuss empathy cultivation, why competition is for losers, lifestyle design, reading list methodology, and much more. (Stream below or right-click here to download):

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Ryan Holiday:

RyanHoliday.net | Daily Stoic | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

• Stillness Is the Key by Ryan Holiday
• The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday
• Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday
• The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday
• Ryan Holiday — Turning the Tables, The Tim Ferriss Show #410 (Ryan’s Last Appearance on the Show)
• Dürer, The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Khan Academy
• What Is Stoicism? A Definition and 9 Stoic Exercises to Get You Started, Daily Stoic
• Premeditatio Malorum, Daily Stoic
• Fear-Setting: The Most Valuable Exercise I Do Every Month, tim.blog
• Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), CDC
• The Unprecedented Stock-Market Reaction to COVID-19, Kellogg School of Management, Northwestern University
• Why Uber Stock Fell 17.6% in March, The Motley Fool
• How 3D Printing Is Bringing An Ancient Art Form Back to the Future by Ryan Holiday, Observer
• A Timeline of the19th Century, Oxford Reference
• A Timeline of the 20th Century, ThoughtCo.
• A Timeline of the 21st Century, Wikipedia
• Chapter III, “A Comparison of the Conceptions of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman” by Martin Luther King, Jr., Stanford University (Regarding the Etymology of the Word “Decision”)
• SXSW 2020
• Billionaire Investor Bill Ackman Posted an 11% Gain in March after Turning $27 Million into $2.6 Billion with Coronavirus Bets, Markets Insider
• Bear Market Definition, Investopedia
• Whipsaw Definition, Investopedia
• 4 Warren Buffett Principles for Investing in the Coronavirus Crash, The Motley Fool
• Anger Management: 8 Strategies Backed By Two Thousand Years of Practice, Daily Stoic
• Locus of Control and Your Life, Verywell Mind
• 5 Timeless Truths from the Serenity Prayer That Offer Wisdom in the Modern Age, HuffPost
• Coronavirus Cases, Concentrated on the Coasts, Now Threaten America’s Middle, The New York Times
• On Being with Krista Tippett
• Shortage of Personal Protective Equipment Endangering Health Workers Worldwide Copy, WHO
• Westworld, HBO
• Salmon in the Trees: Life in Alaska’s Tongass Rain Forest, National Geographic
• From Tree to Shining Tree, Radiolab
• The Tao of Seneca: Letters from a Stoic Master (aka The Moral Letters to Lucilius) — Free PDFs (See Volume 1, Letter 56 — On Quiet and Study)
• New York Requests 85 Refrigerated Trucks To House The Coming Dead, Jalopnik
• The 5 Levels of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, Verywell Mind
• Faust by Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
• The World Is a Narrow Bridge and the Important Thing Is to Not Be Afraid, Daily Stoic
• The Bear by William Faulkner
• “The Coward and the Hero Feel the Same” Cus D’Amato
• Why Japan Failed at Pearl Harbor, The National Interest
• What Are The Main Differences Between Epicureanism And Stoicism? Daily Stoic
• Antonine Plague, Ancient History Encyclopedia
• The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
• 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene
• Mastery by Robert Greene
• Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
• Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in Life and in the Markets by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
• Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
• Cato, George Washington’s Mount Vernon
• Flexport
• Frontline Responders Fund, GoFundMe
• Operation Masks
• Real Mind Control: The 21-Day No-Complaint Experiment, tim.blog
• “My master Attalus used to say: ‘Evil herself drinks the largest portion of her own poison.’ The poison which serpents carry for the destruction of others, and secrete without harm to themselves, is not like this poison; for this sort is ruinous to the possessor.” — Letter 81 — On Benefits, The Tao of Seneca: Letters from a Stoic Master (aka The Moral Letters to Lucilius)
• Alive Time or Dead Time Challenge: You Choose If This Time Is Productive Or Not, Daily Stoic

SHOW NOTES

• How do the ideas of the ancient Stoics help me face the trials and tribulations tracked in by our apparent apocalyptic horseman du jour during the age of COVID-19 — for example, the roller coaster ride that my stock portfolio’s value has become? [05:12]
• Contemplating the amount of war, pestilence, and famine the world’s gone through since the Marcus Aurelius statue that sits on Ryan’s desk was carved in 1840 — and reminding ourselves that as bad as things get, history marches on (with or without us). [11:27]
• How Ryan prepared in anticipation of the pandemic, what he’s been struggling with most since then, and what I’ve been doing to cope with the same struggle. [12:48]
• It doesn’t matter how many opportunities you miss; it matters how many opportunities you take advantage of. [16:06]
• There are times when I may make very fast good decisions, but I almost never make good rushed decisions. [21:08]
• How would the Stoics suggest processing the anger we might be feeling over our government’s delayed response toward the pandemic — especially if we were already advocating precaution in the weeks before and being denounced as Chicken Littles for our trouble? [00:00]
• How am I thinking about fear, and what would I say to someone who’s feeling overwhelmed by fear right now — for themselves and loved ones — under circumstances that are “unfair” and beyond anyone’s control? [31:48]
• How can you make the next three to six months something you look back upon as a sacred time that you really treasure, not just survive? Is it going to be “alive time or dead time,” as Robert Greene would say? [40:17]
• A few more thoughts on fear. [45:05]
• Why I’m confident (and optimistic) that crisis will overcome incompetence in how the United States comes out of this ordeal. [48:08]
• When stuff breaks down, real leaders stand up — like Emperor Marcus Aurelius working to keep Rome’s economy going during 15 years of a pandemic instead of fleeing to the countryside for safety. With different levels of skills and resources, how might we each channel our inner Stoic to be of service to the world during this crisis — and see it as an opportunity rather than something to simply be survived? And can you simultaneously be a pleasure-loving Epicurean and duty-bound Stoic? [51:08]
• Since anger and complaining accomplish about the same amount of nothing, quarantine might be an excellent time to revisit Will Bowen’s 21-day no-complaint experiment. [1:02:20]
• And if you want to further your contribution to ensuring the world doesn’t grind to a total standstill, maybe try the Daily Stoic’s Alive Time, Dead Time Challenge! [1:04:18]
• Using this rare window of time to foster a sense of community where it has largely broken down. [1:05:15]
• The origin story of the expression “alive time or dead time,” how some of the most brilliant minds have expressed their greatest work during times of quarantine, and parting thoughts. [1:06:16]

PEOPLE MENTIONED

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with over 400 million downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.