Photo by Travis Lilley (@travislilleyphoto)

“The only way to not be afraid of someone’s suffering is if you’re not afraid of your own.”
— Marcela Ot’alora G.

Marcela Ot’alora G. is a psychotherapist and an installation artist. Her interest and focus on trauma has led her to understand the healing process as an intimate reconnection with one’s essence through love, integrity, acceptance, and honoring of the human spirit. In addition to working with trauma and PTSD, she has dedicated her professional life to teaching and research. She uses art as a vehicle for deepening the relationship to self, others, and the natural world.

Marcela worked as a co-therapist in MAPS’ very first government regulated MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study in Madrid, Spain. She served as the principal investigator for MAPS’ phase two MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study, and is currently in the MDMDA healthy volunteer study and phase three in Boulder, Colorado.

She is also a trainer and supervisor for therapists working on MAPS studies for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

You can find additional resources from this episode in the show notes below. They are also separately curated on this page: tim.blog/therapyresources.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.

This episode is brought to you by Ring. You might already know about its smart video doorbells and cameras that protect millions of people everywhere. Ring helps you stay connected to your home from anywhere in the world. So if there’s a package delivery or a surprise visitor, you’ll get an alert and be able to see, hear, and speak to whoever is at your door—all from your phone. Ring’s core mission is to make neighborhoods safer.

I’ve used Ring for years now. It catches and records all the regular stuff like deliveries and so on, but it’s also saved my ass a few times, catching weirdos and weird things. Ring is key to my peace of mind, and as a listener of The Tim Ferriss Show, you can get a special rate for your own Ring Welcome Kit — which includes a video doorbell and a Chime Pro — by going to Ring.com/Tim. (U.S. Only).

This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep. I recently moved into a new home and needed new beds, and I purchased mattresses from Helix Sleep. It offers mattresses personalized to your preferences and sleeping style without costing thousands of dollars. Visit HelixSleep.com/TIM and take the simple 2-3 minute sleep quiz to get started, and the team there will build a mattress you’ll love.

Their customer service makes all the difference. The mattress arrives within a week, and the shipping is completely free. You can try the mattress for 100 nights, and if you’re not happy, it’ll pick it up and offer a full refund. To personalize your sleep experience, visit HelixSleep.com/TIM and you’ll receive up to $125 off your custom mattress.

Want to hear another episode about the future of psychedelic science? — Listen to this panel I moderated in front of a standing-room-only crowd at the Milken Institute’s Global Conference 2019. It includes a great overview of psychedelic science, investing opportunities, anecdotal personal benefits, legal challenges, and much more. (Stream below or right-click here to download.)

QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Marcela Ot’alora G.:

Website

• Extensive Psychedelic Therapist Training Resources and Recommended Reading (Also available later on this page.) 
• MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies)
• Books by Tim Ferriss
• History of The Modern Fire Truck, DriveZing
• How Medellin Went from Murder Capital to Hipster Holiday Destination, The Telegraph
• 15 Fun Facts About Dick and Jane, Mental Floss
• Is Ecstasy Really That Dangerous? All Your Questions Answered, The Guardian
• Schizophrenia Symptoms and Causes, The Mayo Clinic
• The Arhuacos
• The Healing Journey: Pioneering Approaches to Psychedelic Therapy by Claudio Naranjo
• IFS (Internal Family Systems)
• What is the Hakomi Method? Hakomi Institute
• About Holotropic Breathwork, Grof Transpersonal Training
• Training Protocol for MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy Researchers (Open Label Phase 1 Study), MAPS
• Ketamine, Wikipedia
• Veterans Try Alternative Treatments from Yoga to Marijuana, News 21
• The Basics of Becoming a State Licensed Therapist, Good Therapy
• Zendo Project
• Burning Man
• Trip of Compassion
• LSD (Lysergic Acid Diethylamide), Wikipedia
• All 169 Seinfeld Episodes, Ranked From Worst to Best, Vulture
• Chia Pets
• Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale for DSM-5 (CAPS-5), National Center for PTSD
• Psychedelic-Assisted Therapies and Research Certificate, CIIS
• Already Free: Buddhism Meets Psychotherapy on the Path of Liberation by Bruce Tift
• Bad Science: Quacks, Hacks, and Big Pharma Flacks by Ben Goldacre
• Studying Studies by Peter Attia, MD

SHOW NOTES

Timestamps will be added shortly. 

• Marcela shares her childhood dreams of growing up to be a fire truck while playing cards with the inmates at the mental health hospital where her mother worked — the place she felt safest in violence-torn Medellín, Colombia.
• After arriving in the United States, how did Marcela’s interest in psychedelic therapy begin?
• What happened in the days and weeks following her first breakthrough MDMA experience with MAPS founder Rick Doblin? What made her own experiences so powerful, and how, specifically, did she believe MDMA could be of help to others?
• Influences outside of Rick and MAPS that have shaped Marcela’s approach to becoming the therapist she is today.
• Interested in becoming a psychedelic therapist? Here’s some advice from Marcela (and a link to a page of resources to guide you).
• What is the WAIT acronym, and why should therapists always keep it in mind?
• We touch on Hakomi therapy and Marcela explains how communicating with parts of ourselves in non-ordinary states can differ.
• What is the MT-1 study, and how does it help aspiring psychedelic therapists train for what they can expect in sessions ahead?
• What are the qualification checkboxes needed if one wants to become a psychedelic therapist within the structure of current legal restrictions, and how does Marcela feel about where the FDA is leaning in negotiations over licensing?
• Before committing to years of academic work (and funding) to secure a PhD in psychology, how might someone get a basic feel for what psychedelic therapy work entails?
• A realistic look at just how difficult and un-sexy psychedelic therapy work can be.
• The therapist can’t rely on the medicine to carry the session. He or she needs to be prepared if things don’t go according to plan in order to make sure the situation doesn’t actually worsen the condition being treated.
• What other worries does Marcela have looking forward as things continue to become more popular and more people hope to become involved in psychedelic therapy to some capacity? What questions still need to be answered?
• What is the role of the therapist when a subject is so inner-directed that they’re silent throughout the entire session?
• What does Marcela remember as her hardest sessions, and what made them so difficult?
• What does preparation look like for a session directed under MAPS protocol? What are the rules that must be followed once a session has begun, and how might a therapist deal with someone in a non-ordinary state who no longer wants to comply with these rules?
• How is psychedelic therapy like alchemy — especially when trying to help someone work with their own overwhelming feelings of self-judgment?
• In Marcela’s experience, what separates a good psychedelic therapist from a great psychedelic therapist?
• In order to ensure the subject’s treatment isn’t somehow contaminated by external factors, where does the psychedelic therapist draw the line between self-disclosure and professional distance?
• What are the rules of engagement when Marcela and her co-therapist (who also happens to be her husband) have a disagreement during a session? What might cause such a disagreement, and how has it affected the outcome when it has happened?
• How long does each preparatory and post session last?
• How many preparatory sessions lead up to an eight-hour MDMA session, what is their duration, and how many/how long are the post sessions that exit the experience?
• Just to alleviate the misconception some might have about MDMA being a quick and painless fix for what ails you: trauma hurts whether it’s coming or going. Expect hard work and no small amount of suffering.
• Where can people learn more about the options that are available for exploring this work and understanding what’s involved? (Find the big list here.)
• “Science is an organized kind of wonder.” Marcela’s work is informed as much by poetry, art, and imagery as it is by science. Here’s a short list of reading we both recommend (the much longer list can be found here).
• Parting thoughts.

PEOPLE MENTIONED

Posted on: November 22, 2019.

Please check out Tribe of Mentors, my newest book, which shares short, tactical life advice from 100+ world-class performers. Many of the world's most famous entrepreneurs, athletes, investors, poker players, and artists are part of the book. The tips and strategies in Tribe of Mentors have already changed my life, and I hope the same for you. Click here for a sample chapter and full details. Roughly 90% of the guests have never appeared on my podcast.

Who was interviewed? Here's a very partial list: tech icons (founders of Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Craigslist, Pinterest, Spotify, Salesforce, Dropbox, and more), Jimmy Fallon, Arianna Huffington, Brandon Stanton (Humans of New York), Lord Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ben Stiller, Maurice Ashley (first African-American Grandmaster of chess), Brené Brown (researcher and bestselling author), Rick Rubin (legendary music producer), Temple Grandin (animal behavior expert and autism activist), Franklin Leonard (The Black List), Dara Torres (12-time Olympic medalist in swimming), David Lynch (director), Kelly Slater (surfing legend), Bozoma Saint John (Beats/Apple/Uber), Lewis Cantley (famed cancer researcher), Maria Sharapova, Chris Anderson (curator of TED), Terry Crews, Greg Norman (golf icon), Vitalik Buterin (creator of Ethereum), and nearly 100 more. Check it all out by clicking here.