I learned that none of the urges that I thought I needed to act on were actually commands.

— Leo Babauta

Leo Babauta (@zen_habits) is a bestselling author and the founder of Zen Habits, a website dedicated to finding simplicity and mindfulness in the daily chaos of our lives. Zen Habits has more than two million readers, and Time magazine has named it one of their “Top 25 Blogs” and “Top 50 Websites.” He is also a student of Zen and on a mission to help the world open through uncertainty training.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by GiveWell.org, producers of the world’s top research on charities and effective giving, Tonal smart home gym, and Athletic Greens all-in-one supplement. More on all three below.

Listen onApple Podcasts

Listen onSpotify

Listen onOvercast

This episode is brought to you by GiveWell.org! For over ten years, GiveWell.org has helped donors find the charities and projects that save and improve lives most per dollar. Here’s how: GiveWell dedicates over twenty thousand hours a year to researching charitable organizations and hand-picks a few of the highest-impact, evidence-backed charities. Since 2010, GiveWell has helped over 50,000 donors direct over 500 million dollars to the most effective charities. Most importantly, these donations will save over 75,000 lives and improve the lives of millions more.

This year, support the charities that save and improve lives most, with GiveWell. Any of my listeners who become new GiveWell donors will have their first donation matched up to $250 when you go to GiveWell.org/Tim and select “PODCAST” and “Tim Ferriss” at checkout.

This episode is brought to you by Tonal! Tonal is the world’s most intelligent home gym and personal trainer. It is precision engineered and designed to be the world’s most advanced strength studio. Tonal uses breakthrough technology—like adaptive digital weights and A.I. learning—together with the best experts in resistance training so you get stronger, faster. Every program is personalized to your body using A.I., and smart features check your form in real time, just like a personal trainer.

Try Tonal, the world’s smartest home gym, for 30 days in your home, and if you don’t love it, you can return it for a full refund. Visit Tonal.com for $100 off their smart accessories when you use promo code TIM at checkout.

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to learn more about metta (loving-kindness) meditation? Listen in on my conversation with Sharon Salzberg, the world-renowned teacher who wrote a book on the subject. We discuss self-compassion as a secret ingredient, mental frameworks, defusing anger, doing the good that’s in front of you, and much more.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Leo Babauta:

Zen Habits | Twitter | Facebook

• Books by Leo Babauta
• The Power of Less: Changing Behavior with Leo Babauta | The Tim Ferriss Show
• Zen, Tea, and the Art of Life Management | tim.blog
• 10 Steps to Become an Email Ninja by Leo Babauta | tim.blog
• Guam | Wikitravel
• I Tried to Quit & It’s Too Hard! | Zen Habits
• 10 Tips for Quitting Smoking | Zen Habits
• Tips for Running Your First 5k Race | Verywell Fit
• A Girl, A Shoe, A Prince: The Endlessly Evolving Cinderella | NPR
• How Habits Are Formed | Zen Habits
• Hold Your Own Feet to the Fire | Zen Habits
• What ‘Embrace the Suck’ Means to the Military | Military.com
• Jim Dethmer — How to Shift from Victim Consciousness, Reduce Drama, Practice Candor, Be Fully Alive, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show
• The Brady Bunch | CBS
• Lifehacker
• 43 Folders
• Dumb Little Man
• The List to Beat All Lists: Top 20 Productivity Lists to Rock Your Tasks | Zen Habits
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy Ferriss
• Digg
• Zen To Done (ZTD): The Simple Productivity System | Zen Habits
• Reddit
• Delicious (Website) | Wikipedia
• From Geek to Freak: How I Gained 34 lbs. of Muscle in 4 Weeks | tim.blog
• Pandemic Buying: The Odd, Comforting Things Americans Are Buying | CBS News
• Japanese Zen Buddhist Philosophy | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
• Tribe of Mentors: Short Life Advice from the Best in the World by Timothy Ferriss
• Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind by Shunyru Suzuki
• What Is Zen? Plain Talk for a Beginner’s Mind by Norman Fischer and Susan Moon
• The Sixteen Bodhisattva Precepts | San Francisco Zen Center
• Brahmajala Sutra | Wikipedia
• Exodus 20: The 10 Commandments | Bible Gateway
• The Beginner’s Guide to Unschooling | Zen Habits
• Can Unschoolers Get Into College? | Blake Boles
• 7 Colleges for Homeschooled, Unschooled, and Self-Directed Learners | Adorable Chaos
• The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and Get a Real Life and Education by Grace Llewellyn | Shikshantar
• Books by Alfie Kohn
• How I’m Overcoming My Obsession with Constant Self-Improvement | Fast Company
• Metta (Loving-Kindness) Meditation | Metta Institute
• Joy on Demand: The Art of Discovering the Happiness Within by Chade-Meng Tan
• Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha by Tara Brach
• The Coronavirus Makes The Future Uncertain. Here’s How To Cope | NPR
• The Year of Living Uncertainly | The Atlantic

SHOW NOTES

• Rewinding the clock, Leo shows us what his life was like in Guam circa 2005 and shares the catalyst that sparked the big life changes he’s made between then and now. [06:54]
• After trying to quit smoking seven times before, what made Leo’s eighth attempt stick? [12:15]
• Why the inevitable dip we experience when forming a habit is potentially the most important part of making it stick — if we absorb what it has to teach us in the moment rather than allowing it to derail our efforts. [15:40]
• Embracing the suck, putting mindfulness to work for us when the going gets tough, and the thought processes that led to Leo and his family of eight to move from Guam to San Francisco in 2010 — from a place of comfort surrounded by extended family to a somewhat jarring and alien landscape where they didn’t really know anyone. [17:56]
• When Leo started Zen Habits in January of 2007, how did he manage to expand its popularity from an audience of one (his wife) to thousands — and eventually millions — in a relatively short period of time? [25:42]
• In hindsight, what other forays into the productivity space and experimental tactics really helped launch Zen Habits into the blogging stratosphere between 2007 and 2009? What made Leo’s work stand out from the competition in this crowded arena? [31:47]
• What would Leo suggest to someone trying to simplify their life — especially during the anxiety-driving uncertainties of 2020? [38:10]
• How can we get better at saying no to overcommitments that unnecessarily complicate our lives? [40:37]
• What are some of the rules, constraints, and forms of accountability that Leo has found powerfully effective in his own life? [43:39]
• What resources would Leo recommend to someone curious about Zen Buddhism, what are some commonly mistaken preconceptions people have about it, and how has the practice been helpful to Leo in his own life? [45:06]
• What are the bodhisattva precepts, what vows has Leo considered taking, and what has motivated him to take them? And in spite of some surface similarities, how do these precepts differ from the 10 commandments most Westerners will find familiar? [48:23]
• How have Leo and his wife managed to homeschool — or, more accurately, unschool — six children, why did they choose this over other options for education, and what does unschooling look like? [53:06]
• Is unschooling an ideal preparation for potential entrepreneurs? Does it perhaps underprepare someone seeking to continue their education at a traditional university? [59:53]
• Resources Leo recommends for people who would like to learn more about homeschooling and unschooling along with common pitfalls and best practices? [1:02:47]
• What changes in life habits or new beliefs have had the greatest impact on Leo’s contentment, and what do they look like in practice? [1:03:40]
• Resources for people who want to delve further into metta (loving-kindness) meditation. [1:09:53]
• What compelled Leo to go through nine months of masculine practice training with John Wineland, and what did he take away from the experience? [1:11:16]
• A practical daily exercise Leo learned during this time, and some of his most surprising results. [1:14:32]
• Why this pandemic presents a unique opportunity to train ourselves to cope with uncertainty and anxiety, and how Leo proposes we can put this into practice. [1:17:07]
• Some bad news and good news from a Tibetan Buddhist master that might help you surf the chaos accompanied by less fear. [1:22:23]
• Parting thoughts. [1:24:46]

PEOPLE MENTIONED

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 500 million downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.