Photo credit: Nina Subin

“Say something important rather than say important things.”
– Daniel Pink

This podcast explores how to make better decisions, ask better questions, and be more creative. The stories range from escapes to India and speechwriting for Al Gore, to writing bestselling books and using “motivational interviewing” with kids.

The guest is Daniel H. Pink (@danielpink), the author of six provocative books, including his newest, When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing. WHEN is a New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Washington Post, and Publishers Weekly bestseller. Pink’s other books include the long-running New York Times bestseller A Whole New Mind and the #1 New York Times bestsellers Drive and To Sell is Human. His books have won multiple awards and have been translated into 37 languages. Pink lives in Washington, DC, with his family.

Daniel was the host and co-executive producer of Crowd Control, a television series about human behavior on the National Geographic Channel. For the last six years, London-based Thinkers 50 named him as one of the top-15 business thinkers in the world. Enjoy!

Want to hear another podcast with incredible life advice? — In this episode, I talk with Adam Robinson, Ramit Sethi, and Josh Waitzkin and discuss a variety of topics on business, wealth, and happiness (stream below or right-click here to download):

This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic. While I often praise this company’s lion’s mane mushroom coffee for a minimal caffeine wakeup call that lasts, I asked the founders if they could help me — someone who’s struggled with insomnia for decades — sleep. Their answer: Reishi Mushroom Elixir. They made a special batch for me and my listeners that comes without sweetener; you can try it at bedtime with a little honey or nut milk, or you can just add hot water to your single-serving packet and embrace its bitterness like I do.

Try it right now by going to foursigmatic.com/ferriss and using the code Ferriss to get 20 percent off this rare, limited run of Reishi Mushroom Elixir. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you’ll be disappointed.

This episode is also brought to you by WeWork. I haven’t had an office in almost two decades, but working from home and coffee shops isn’t always what it’s cracked up to be. When I moved to Austin, one of the first things I did was get a space at WeWork, and I could not be happier. It’s dog friendly and serves the best cold-brew coffee on tap I’ve ever had!

WeWork is a global network of work spaces where companies and people grow together — in fact, more than ten percent of Fortune 500 companies use WeWork. The idea is simple: you focus on your business, and WeWork takes care of the rest — front desk service, utilities, refreshments, and more. WeWork now has more than 200 locations all over the world, so chances are good there’s one near you. Check out we.co/tim to become a part of the global WeWork community!

QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

Selected Links from the Episode

• Connect with Daniel Pink:

Website | Twitter | Facebook

• When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing by Daniel H. Pink
• A Whole New Mind: Why Right-Brainers Will Rule the Future by Daniel H. Pink
• Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel H. Pink
• To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth About Moving Others by Daniel H. Pink
• The Adventures of Johnny Bunko: The Last Career Guide You’ll Ever Need by Daniel H. Pink and Rob Ten Pas
• 2014 Weinberg College Convocation Address by Daniel Pink (“writing to figure it out” and more)
• Yale Law & Policy Review Volume 8, Issue 2 (1990)
• The Checklist Manifesto: How to Get Things Right by Atul Gawande
• Free Agent Nation by Daniel H. Pink, Fast Company
• Levels of the Game by John McPhee
• A Sense of Where You Are: Bill Bradley at Princeton by John McPhee
• Oranges by John McPhee
• The Survival of the Bark Canoe by John McPhee
• Annals of the Former World by John McPhee
• Motivational Interviewing
• Free Agent Nation: The Future of Working for Yourself by Daniel H. Pink
• Henry Moore’s Sculptures, Tate
• The 4-Hour Chef: The Simple Path to Cooking Like a Pro, Learning Anything, and Living the Good Life by Timothy Ferriss
• Daniel Pink’s ‘When’ Shows the Importance Of Timing Throughout Life, All Things Considered with Mary Louise Kelly, NPR
• Draft No. 4: On the Writing Process by John McPhee
• Future Shock by Alvin Toffler
• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change by Stephen R. Covey
• What Is Amazon’s Approach to Product Development and Product Management? answered by Ian McAllister at Quora
• Pinkcast 1.12: Why You Should Write a Failure Resume (with Tina Seelig)
• Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott
• The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield and Shawn Coyne
• Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl
• Animal Farm by George Orwell
• The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
• The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
• Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
• 1984 by Gorge Orwell
• The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood
• The Plot Against America by Philip Roth
• Earthseed: The Complete Series by Octavia E. Butler
• It Can’t Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis
• Cumulus by Eliot Peper
• Infomocracy: Book One of the Centenal Cycle by Malka Older
• Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers by Timothy Ferriss
• The Affair: Season 1
• The Lobster Roll
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy Ferriss

Show Notes

• Daniel talks about one of his “best ideas that didn’t go anywhere.” [07:53]
• Even though he didn’t pursue a career in law, what did Daniel gain by going to law school? [10:57]
• The role of surrogation and intellectual humility in decision making. [15:40]
• How did Daniel go from dropping out of law school to speechwriting for Al Gore? [17:54]
• Why did Daniel veer away from a career in “the genus of” politics despite a lifelong fascination? [20:20]
• How has Daniel become a better speechwriter? [24:49]
• We share a love for John McPhee’s ability to write a gripping tale about anything. [38:43]
• What is motivational interviewing? [41:33]
• To what does Daniel attribute the popularity of his book A Whole New Mind: Why Right-Brainers Will Rule the Future? [47:36]
• Is there a common thread through Daniel’s books? [52:58]
• What has been the most difficult book for Daniel to write — and why? [55:43]
• What do Daniel’s book outlines look like, and how can he distinguish between a good approach and a bad approach? [58:15]
• Why early- to mid-afternoon is a time for caution. [1:03:19]
• Moving through the day in three stages, and what Daniel wishes he’d known about cognitive abilities earlier in life. [1:05:21]
• When does Daniel usually wake up, and what do the first two hours of his day look like? [1:10:43]
• When Daniel is in the process of writing a book, what does his typical week look like? [1:15:00]
• Does Daniel take set periods of time between writing books? How does he decide on a new project? [1:15:31]
• On pitching a bad book idea to Kevin Kelly (among others) and the arguments against it. [1:20:06]
• How Daniel knows he has a good idea for a book. [1:22:30]
• How does Daniel keep track of the ideas he saves for potential projects, and what gets picked after removing the “flies from the soup?” [1:25:10]
• Don’t know what you really think about something? Sometimes you have to write to figure it out. [1:28:43]
• How Daniel formulates his book proposals. [1:34:30]
• An important question to ask at the proposal stage: “Who is not going to buy this book?” [1:38:15]
• Pondering your target market isn’t always an exercise in political correctness. [1:45:13]
• How Daniel turns memorable failures into teachable moments. [1:46:42]
• A technique for remembering and learning from missteps: the failure resume. [1:52:19]
• What books has Daniel gifted to others? [1:55:19]
• Why is Daniel currently obsessed with dystopian fiction? [2:00:11]
• “Assume positive intent” as a default setting. [2:01:14]
• Catching up, good words to use today, and parting thoughts. [2:04:51]

People Mentioned

Posted on: March 25, 2018.

Please check out Tribe of Mentors, my newest book, which shares short, tactical life advice from 100+ world-class performers. Many of the world's most famous entrepreneurs, athletes, investors, poker players, and artists are part of the book. The tips and strategies in Tribe of Mentors have already changed my life, and I hope the same for you. Click here for a sample chapter and full details. Roughly 90% of the guests have never appeared on my podcast.

Who was interviewed? Here's a very partial list: tech icons (founders of Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Craigslist, Pinterest, Spotify, Salesforce, Dropbox, and more), Jimmy Fallon, Arianna Huffington, Brandon Stanton (Humans of New York), Lord Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ben Stiller, Maurice Ashley (first African-American Grandmaster of chess), Brené Brown (researcher and bestselling author), Rick Rubin (legendary music producer), Temple Grandin (animal behavior expert and autism activist), Franklin Leonard (The Black List), Dara Torres (12-time Olympic medalist in swimming), David Lynch (director), Kelly Slater (surfing legend), Bozoma Saint John (Beats/Apple/Uber), Lewis Cantley (famed cancer researcher), Maria Sharapova, Chris Anderson (curator of TED), Terry Crews, Greg Norman (golf icon), Vitalik Buterin (creator of Ethereum), and nearly 100 more. Check it all out by clicking here.